Despite his reputation as perhaps THE metal bassist of all time, Black Sabbath's legendary GEEZER BUTLER has never been a man to rest on his laurels. Not only is he re-uniting with his old colleagues once again for this year's Download Festival, but the man himself is once again making a ferocious racket with his other project G/Z/R.
Alongside his cohorts Pedro Howse (guitar), Clark Brown (vocals) and drummer Chad Smith, Geezer is about to unleash an album of vintage power with "Ohmwork" (out on Mayan/ Sanctuary) which - despite its' pun-worthy title - is not a record to take lightly. It's also a record which might just be good enough to rank amongst Geezer's best work: and from the man who's played on albums as crucial as "Paranoid" and "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" that's indeed saying something.
As ever, Geezer's schedule is such that a phone conversation is out of the question, but an e-mail encounter with the man himself is truly remarkable: not only is Geezer thoroughly intelligent and lucid (as befits the man behind the lyrics to songs such as "War Pigs", "Children Of The Grave" and "Paranoid", but he has our questionnaire back to us almost before we've had time to draw breath. What an absolute star! 'Ere Geezer, if you ever hang up that bass guitar, we could do with a handy sub editor round here, y'know.....
Geezer, it's staggering to believe you completed the new G/Z/R album "Ohmwork" in a mere ten days. It harkd back to the way the likes of Hendrix and of course Sabbath used to make records. You must have had all the material all ready to go beforehand, though, surely?
"ACTUALLY, ALL 3 OF MY ALBUMS HAVE BEEN RECORDED QUICKLY, NONE MORE THAN 2 WEEKS. OF COURSE, I TOOK MY TIME ON THE MIXNG PART OF IT, SO ALL IN ALL, IT WAS COMPLETED INSIDE A MONTH. IN FACT THIS IS THE ONLY ALBUM OF THE THREE THAT WAS FULLY WORKED OUT BEFOREHAND. I HAVE TO HAVE THE BASIC TRACKS DOWN QUICKLY, BECAUSE EVRYONE IN THE BAND HAS OTHER COMMITMENTS, SO WE HAVE TO WORK WITHIN A SET TIME FRAME."
You've cited Sabbath's reformation as part of the inspiration behind the "Ohmwork" material. What's it like working with Ozzy these days and what do you make of "The Osbornes" and the whole media circus surrounding him and the family?
"I'D BEEN UNSURE WHICH DIRECTION TO TAKE ON 'OHMWORK.' SINCE 'BLACK SCIENCE', WE HAD ACCUMULATED ABOUT 40 IDEAS FOR SONGS. I JUST NEEDED THE DISCIPLINE TO FINALLY PICK THE ONES WE SHOULD DO, AND AFTER THE 2004 OZZFEST, I HAD THAT LIVE GIG BUZZ ON, SO THATS WHEN I DECIDED TO GO IN AND MAKE A VIRTUALLY LIVE ALBUM.
"WORKING WITH OZZY IS LIKE WORKING WITH TONY AND BILL- WE ONLY SEE EACH OTHER AT THE GIG, USUALLY JUST BEFORE WE GO ON STAGE. I ENJOYED THE FIRST SERIES OF THE OSBOURNES, BUT I HAVEN'T WATCHED ANY SINCE- I NEVER KNOW WHICH NIGHT ITS ON! ITS FUNNY AFTER ALL THESE YEARS OF KNOWING OZZY TO SEE HIM AND HIS FAMILY TURNED INTO MAINSTREAM MEDIA FAVOURITES. HILARIOUS!"
"Ohmwork" sounds extremely pissed off - and I mean that as a compliment! There's plenty surrounding us all to piss us off in the modern world, but do you find anger is the most creative emotion for you when you're working/ writing?
"WHEN WE WERE RECORDING OHMWORK THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WAS GOING ON, SO EVERYWHERE YOU TURNED IT WAS NOTHING BUT POLITICS, AND AS I'M NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, I CAN'T VOTE, SO I CAN APPEASE THAT SOMEWHAT BY WRITING ABOUT HOW I FEEL ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING POLITICALLY. ALSO, AS THE ALBUM IS ABOUT SUBJECTS LIKE FAITH, FAKING DEATH, DEPRESSION, AND BEING CONTENT TO BE ALONE, ITS A GREAT VEHICLE FOR EXPRESSING ALL THOUGHTS AND EMOTIONS AT A PARTICULAR TIME."
Album highlight "Pardon My Depression" is classic G/Z/R, with those massive, clubfooted riffs, huge reserves of power and Clark's gut-scouring vocals. The lyrics (sample: "Excuse my intrusion/ I need a trth infusion/ my life is just illusion") make like a 21st Century "Paranoid" to these ears. Is that a fair comparison?
"YES, VERY MUCH SO. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE FEW LYRICS I WROTE ON THIS ALBUM, AND ITS ABOUT THE SAME SUBJECT AS PARANOID, ABOUT FEELING HELPLESS. I HAVE SUFFERED ON AND OFF WITH DEPRESSION MOST OF MY LIFE, AND PEOPLE JUST THINK YOU'RE BEING MISERABLE, OR ANTI SOCIAL WHEN YOU'RE IN A DEPRESSED STATE. THANKFULLY, NOW DOCTORS UNDERSTAND WHAT PEOPLE ARE FEELING, WHICH WASN'T THE CASE BEFORE, AND THERE ARE SEVERAL EXCELLENT MEDICATIONS AVAILABLE TO TREAT IT. I ALWAYS REMEMBER AS A KID EVERYONE'S MOMS TAKING VALIUM, AND I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY. NOW I DO, AND I'M SO GLAD VALIUM ISN'T THE ONLY ANSWER ANYMORE."
"I Believe" is great and your son Biff sings on it too. Apparently it's the first time you've worked together in the studio. Were you calling the shots or does he tell Dad exactly what to do instead?
"IT CAME ABOUT PURELY BY ACCIDENT. PEDRO AND CLARK WERE IN THE KITCHEN OF MY HOUSE, AND THEY WERE WORKING OUT THE VOCALS FOR I BELIEVE ACOUSTICALLY. BIFF JUST GOT HOME FROM SOMEWHERE, AND HE CAME INTO THE KITCHEN AND WAS MAKING A CUP OF COFFEE AND HE JUST STARTED SINGING ALONG TO WHAT CLARK WAS SINGING, ONLY IN HARMONY. WE ALL REALLY LIKED WHAT HE WAS SINGING , SO WE GOT HIM INTO THE STUDIO, AND HE DID HIS PART. WHILE HE WAS THERE, HE DID SOME BACK-UP SINGING ON "DONT YOU KNOW". IT WAS GREAT TO FINALLY WORK WITH ONE OF MY CHILDREN!"
The track itself is very edgy and very good, with lots of light and shade. The song attacks religious bigotry, or more directly, fanaticism. We've been here before with songs like "Children Of The Grave", haven't we? It's depressing to think things haven't improved in over 3 decades, isn't it?
"I DON'T LIKE THE WAY RELIGION HAS BEEN HI-JACKED FOR POLITICAL MEANS. SADLY, IT SEEMS TO HAVE SERVED THIS PURPOSE FOR AS LONG AS HUMANS HAVE BEEN AROUND; ITS JUST ANOTHER DIVISIVE ELEMENT IN THE HUMAN PSYCHE. I AM SURE THATS NOT WHAT MOSES, JESUS, MOHAMMED, WHOEVER ELSE INTENDED, OTHERWISE THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM AND SATAN. "
The G/Z/R band works really well and you sound totally focussed on the album. Does it operate as a democracy, or ultimately do you have the final say in everything?
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"ITS VERY MUCH A DEMOCRACY, BUT AS PRODUCER, I DO HAVE THE FINAL SAY. WE ALL SEEM TO AGREE ON EVERYTHING AND SEE THE SONGS THE SAME WAY ANYWAY, SO THERE WERE NO PROBLEMS AT ALL IN THAT WAY."
"Alone" for the new album is devastating stuff. Musically, it's really bleak with the descending riffs and an impressively grim atmosphere. The opening lyrical gambit is: "Why do I pray for the end of the day?" and it's all downhill from there. But if we're honest, most of us feel this black at times, don't we?
"THE LYRICS ARE ALL CLARK'S. I THINK HE HAS BEEN THROUGH A LOT OF BAD STUFF IN HIS LIFE, BUT HE HAS COME THROUGH IT ALL, AND THIS WAS HIS REFLECTION OF THOSE TIMES, SAYING THAT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT."
"Dogs Of Whore" is excellent, too, really visceral - and with its' subject matter relating to the unholy trinity of Bush, Bin Laden and Cheney - could be an updated "War Pigs". Are you as scared as me that we've got another four years of this US administration?
"I HATE WAR, NO MATTER WHERE OR WHO IS FIGHTING WHO. THE RIGHT WING IN AMERICA FRIGHTENS ME A LOT; THEY SAY THEY ARE PRO-LIFE, BUT THINK NOTHING OF BOMBING A WHOLE COUNTRY KILLING THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE AND ALLIED TROOPS, ALL ON A LIE! PEOPLE'S FREEDOMS ARE GRADUALLY BEING ERODED AWAY HERE IN AMERICA. BUT THESE THINGS TEND TO GO IN CIRCLES- AFTER REGAN'S AND BUSH 1'S 12 YEARS IN OFFICE, THE COUNTRY ELECTED CLINTON, WHO I THOUGHT WAS AN EXCELLENT PRESIDENT."
Overall, "Ohmwork"s good enough to be classified along with a lot of Sabbath's best material for me, but does it piss you off that people always tend to judge you on the classic early Sabbath material?
"ITS INEVITABLE THAT WHATEVER I DO WILL BE COMPARED TO SABBATH STUFF. I DO IT MYSELF WITH PEOPLE LIKE PAUL MCCARTNEY, ALWAYS HOPING HE'LL DO AN ALBUM THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE BEATLES. BUT WITHOUT SABBATH, THERE WOULD BE NO GZR, AND I WOULD NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS TRY TO COMPETE WITH THE OLD SABBATH STUFF- ITS BEYOND COMPARISON."
I personally love all the Sabbath albums up to "Sabotage" at least -plus I think the Dio-fronted albums are under-rated. How do you think the band's back catalogue stands up these days and do you have a favourite Sabbath album?
"THE BAND'S CATALOGUE SELLS EXTREMELY WELL; ITS KEEPING ME IN MY DOTAGE! I STILL THINK IT SOUNDS GREAT, ESPECIALLY THE FIRST 3 ALBUMS AND "SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH." ITS HARD TO PICK A FAVOURITE, COS ALL THE SONGS HAVE A SPECIAL MEANING FOR ME. I LIKE "SABBATH BLOODY SABBATH", BECAUSE WE WERE IN A VERY HAPPY PERIOD AT THAT TIME. BUT I ALSO LOVE THE FIRST 3 ALBUMS."
Despite Sabbath's 'satanic' image, I remember reading an interview with (I think) Tony Iommi where he said you'd all been to watch a horror film together and ended up running from the cinema because you were all so scared. Is this a true story and if so, what was the movie in question?
"I THINK THAT WAS A SLIGHT EXAGERATION. I THINK HE MAY HAVE BEEN REFERING TO "THE EXORCIST." WE SAW IT THE DAY IT CAME OUT, IN PHILADELPHIA. PEOPLE WERE SCREAMING AND PUKING AND RUNNING OUT, AND IT DID SCARE US. TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE, WHEN WE GOT BACK TO THE HOTEL, THE ACTUAL PRIEST WAS ON THE JOHNNIE CARSON SHOW, SO WE COULDN'T EVEN SAY THAT IT WAS ONLY A MOVIE! TONY WAS THE MOST AFFECTED BY IT- HE GOT THE TOUR MANAGER TO STAY IN THE HOTEL ROOM WITH HIM THAT NIGHT!
Obviously Sabbath have influenced so many younger rock and metal-related bands out there we could be here for days discussing it, but are there any contemporary bands out there at present who really set the Geezer pulse racing?
"I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT SINCE MY KIDS MOVED OUT, I DON'T REALLY LISTEN TO MUCH NEW MUSIC, AS FAR AS METAL GOES. I'M MORE INTO THINGS LIKE MADELYNE PEYROUX AND ALISON KRAUSS, BOTH OF WHOM I ACTUALLY WENT TO SEE IN CONCERT, WHICH IS RARE FOR ME. I'VE BEEN LISTENING TO A LOT OF JAZZ RECENTLY- BRAD MEHLDAU, THE BAD PLUS, BILLIE HOLIDAY'S NEW BOXED SET, COLTRANE, RAY BROWN ETC. I THOUGHT THE NEW MARS VOLTA ALBUM WAS INTERESTING, AND I LIKE WHAT SLIPKNOT ARE DOING."
Finally, you're playing Download with Sabbath this year. You're like the band who refused to die, aren't you? Also, what can we expect from that show? I take it the Stonehenge replicas and hanging dwarves have finally been consigned to history?
"WE'RE ACTUALLY HAVING THE FULL STONEHENGE SET FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ALL ITS GLORY, AS THE STAGE AT DOWNLOAD IS THE ONLY ONE BIG ENOUGH TO FIT IT! ITS ALMOST 60 FEET HIGH, AND OZZY WILL BE PARAGLIDING OFF IT. AS FOR THE SONGS, THE USUAL SUSPECTS, I PRESUME, BUT HOPEFULLY WE CAN DIG A FEW OBSCURE ONES OUT."
Nice one. Thanks very much Geezer. It's been a pleasure.
"THANK YOU, AND GOOD NIGHT FROM HIM."
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